Legislature(1997 - 1998)
10/24/1997 01:15 PM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 149 - PREFER CONSUMPTIVE USE SALMON FISHERIES Number 0018 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the first order of business to be HB 149 "An Act relating to the management of salmon fisheries; and providing for an effective date." He stated that the hearing will not be exclusively held to the bill as there are other issues that people might want to address, although HB 149 is the impetus for holding these hearings. He stated that Representative Kohring will make an opening statement as sponsor of the bill. Number 0030 REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING, Sponsor, stated that he represents Wasilla and Peters Creek. He stated that HB 149 is a reflection of the Fairness in Salmon Harvest (F.I.S.H) Initiative that was deemed unconstitutional. He stated that it was found unconstitutional because it is the role of the legislature to decide issues of allocation and can not be done through the initiative process. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated the intent of the bill is to direct the Board of Fisheries to give the personal consumptive user first priority of salmon in Cook Inlet. He has defined personal consumptive user to be sport fishermen and subsistence and personal users. He stated that the bill applies to areas in the state that have an excess of 500,000 angler days per year, therefore it would only be applicable to Cook Inlet. Number 0325 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that whether HB 149 is the appropriate bill to help feed the families in Southeast Alaska, by giving a priority to the sport fishermen and the subsistence user, he did not know. He stated that he wanted to work together with the commercial interest and the personal use interest. He wanted to make it clear that the intent is to give first priority to the consumptive user after the minimum escapement goals are met. He stated that his goal is to get 5 percent of the resource. Currently consumptive users are getting 1 to 3 percent of the resource, which is minuscule. He stated that 5 percent is a very small percent in comparison to the overall pie. He stated that he does not feel the reaction by the commercial industry is justified as far as this bill threatening or having a devastating impact on the commercial fishing industry. Although, he does respect the opinions of the people who have testified. Number 0653 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN stated that there is a major problem in the Mat-Su valley with fish returns. He stated that this year was a good year for king salmon, but not for coho salmon. He stated that there was not a personal use fishery in the Mat-Su valley. He stated that Fish Creek was traditionally for residents to participate in the personal use fishery. He stated that the fish stocks are a real problem and the real investors of the resource are the residents. Number 0830 DONALD FOX, Commercial Fisherman, stated that he rather have the Board of Fisheries settle allocation problems. He stated he has no problem with allocating fish to the personal use fishery. However, he stated that he does not agree with allocating fish to the growing commercial guide industry, that makes a living by taking nonresidents out fishing. He stated that the numbers of sport guides need to be counted and their effects on the resource need to taken into consideration. He stated that every year the Department of Fish and Game's budget is being lowered. He stated that they should be given adequate resources in order to manage the resource properly. Number 1043 LARRY MALLOY, Director, Kodiak Aquaculture Association and former Alaska Department of Fish and Game Biologist, referred to the Alaska Salmon Management Model and asked the legislature to support and pass the model. He stated that HB 149 is a harmful piece of legislation because it misrepresents the real concerns of the voters. He stated that the United Fishermen of Alaska and the Board of Fisheries would like the legislature to support the Alaska Salmon Management Model. He stated that the public and the regulatory stake holders want the fiscal support to ensure that adequate information is available to monitor the status of the salmon habitat and to monitor the development of the user groups. He stated that the legislature should redirect their efforts away from fish allocation legislation, and instead fiscally support the Alaska Salmon Management Model which will yield a legacy of sustainable resources. He stated that the Kodiak Aquaculture Association is funded primarily from a 2 percent tax that is based on the annual earnings of the commercial salmon permit holders in Kodiak. He stated that the result is better salmon management and research, salmon rehabilitation and enhancement, and habitat monitoring and protection. He stated that because the Department of Fish and Game's budget has been cut, the association has had to fill some of the gaps, especially in habitat monitoring. Number 1609 JEFF STEPHAN, President, United Fishermen's Marketing Association, stated that the reference of 5 percent of the resource is an issue because there is no distinction by area or by species in the bill. He stated that it does not work for the association. He referred to Representative Kohring's statement in the Daily News that the king salmon were coming back to his area because the Kodiak fishermen were on strike. He stated that the Department of Fish and Game provided Representative Kohring with the technical information that explained why the strike was not responsible for the king salmon return. He stated that he has also just recently read that same misstatement again by Representative Kohring. Mr. Stephan stated that allocation is a real sensitive issue and it is easy to blow issues out of proportion, but that does not create a solution. He stated that if Representative Kohring had some questions as to why there have been poor returns of salmon to his area, there are some technical and logical explanations available. He respectfully asked that Representative Kohring did not blame the Kodiak commercial fishermen when there is no plausible or technical proof to show that is the case. Number 1953 MR. STEPHAN stated that the issue of not catching fish should not be confused with escapement or conservation problems. If a person does not catch their limit when fishing a particular area, it does not necessarily mean there is a problem in that area. He indicated that the timing and location of a fisherman guessing where the fish are, plays a part in the catch success. He stated that he did agree that there may be some problems with returns in the Susitna drainage area. He stated that the congestion on the Kenai River of jet boats does have an effect on the resource. He suggested that the impact of the guides be looked into because it is not the fact that all Representative Kohring's constituents are good, with everything that they do is okay and the rest of the Alaskan residents are bad and should be considered second. He stated that he agreed the best use should go to residents. He stated that it would be logical to compare the substantial increase of nonresidents coming into the area to fish, with the problem of escapement or availability to catch fish. He stated that in the last ten years the number of commercial fishermen have remained stable, it is the nonresident fishing licenses that have greatly increased. He felt that the Sport Fish Division of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game should have closed some of the areas along the Susitna River and didn't, probably because they felt they did not have the political support to do so. Number 2540 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that Fish Creek was closed and the Deshka River has been closed to the taking of pink salmon for three years. He felt that there has been some pretty gutsy actions taken by the biologists. He agreed that there are problems with the increase of the nonresident sport fishermen. He stated that there needs to be parameters as to the number of sport fish that nonresidents can take home. He stated that at the airports he has seen people with cooler after cooler full of fish being taken out of the state. Number 2752 MR. STEPHAN responded that the problem is a economic issue in that; all the nonresidents stay in the hotels and bed and breakfasts, frequent the restaurants and giftshops and give business to the guides. He stated that the recreational fishery is, in some respects, an unmanaged fishery. He stated that the catches or removal of fish are not being very well documented. He stated that there is the issue of historical, traditional and customary use of the fishery. Commercial fishermen provide food to the world and to the nation. He stated that a lot of people can not afford the huge cost to come up to Alaska to fish for their salmon. The commercial fishermen allows them to have access to salmon by having it available on the markets. He stated that a sport fish guide blowing out gravel and salmon eggs on the river should not have any higher right to the fish than a commercial fishermen. Number 3117 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that his goal is to make HB 149 just specific to Cook Inlet. He stated that he thinks the current language states that by the reference to the 500,000 anglers per year. He referred to Mr. Stephan's question of the 5 percent and how that factors into the different species of salmon. He stated that he would expect the department to make that determination. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he felt there might be a correlation between the increase in king salmon and the Kodiak seiners strike. He stated that perhaps we will never know. He stated that he did get the Department of Fish and Game's letter of disagreement, which stated that it was not possible that it was the same king salmon because of the time that it would take for the fish from Kodiak to migrate to Cook Inlet. He stated that he feels the Department of Fish and Game's response does not definitely determine whether there is a correlation or not. Number 3344 MR. STEPHAN replied that there is an issue with giving misinformation to local newspapers. He stated the proper problem must be figured out, if the goal is to find a solution. He stated that political statements or misstatements are made to inflame people who do not know the facts of the issue except what they read in the newspaper. The average person that reads Representative Kohring's misstatement on the correlation between the Kodiak Seiners strike and the king salmon in the River are not informed as to the timing and age class of those fish. The age class of the fish that are being caught in Kodiak do not match up to the mature fish that are returning in the River. He stated that if the public was knowledgeable about those facts they would realize that the correlation between the Kodiak Seiners strike and the king catch in the Kenai River could not be correct. Number 3548 MR. STEPHAN referred to HB 149, Section 16.05.740, lines 17-21, "A salmon stock may not be allocated to a fishery at any point along its migration route unless the board and the department have determined that the portion of the stock reserved under this subsection to satisfy the harvest needs of a common consumptive use fishery will be available for harvest by that common consumptive use fishery." He asked if Representative Kohring was planning on changing the wording to read, "along its migration route in Cook Inlet." Number 3620 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he would be willing to add that. Number 3652 DEE DEE PEARSON, Commercial Fisherman, stated that she has been commercial fishing since 1947 and is about to retire. She stated that commercial fishing is a very important factor in Alaska. She stated that this bill would enable commercial sport fishing to become more important. She stated that everyone should be working together. She stated that she felt Alaskans are being out numbered by the tourists that are coming in. She stated that she would like to share the state of Alaska with the tourists, but not to the point where it impedes her ability to make a living. She stated that this issue is extremely important in Kodiak because commercial fishing is all they have, everything else in Kodiak relates to commercial fishing. She emphasized that commercial fishing is a big industry in Alaska. Number 3945 BILL BARKER, Chairman, Kodiak Advisory Board, stated that he has been a participant of commercial fisheries for 27 years. He stated that he would like there to be more education, not only of the public, but of the legislature as to what is going on and what is involved in the fisheries. He stated that he has looked at the Kodiak stocks of salmon and believes that the resource is being managed well and things are going along correctly in Kodiak. However, this is not true for the stocks in the Northern Cook Inlet. He stated the reason is due to management. In Kodiak, escapement is checked by weirs, which are placed across the streams, counting individual fish as they go through. He stated that the harvest of fish are counted and updated daily to the Department of Fish and Game, who then makes the judgement of whether to continue or close the fishery. He stated that no fishing is allowed on stocks if escapement is below the desired levels. He stated that escapement goals are adjusted as the data comes in each year. He stated that the aerial survey method is used on minor systems, the major systems are monitored by weirs. He stated that commercial fisherman bear the burden of sustainability. He stated that Northern Cook Inlet is managed by estimates. For example, there is a harvest of 40,000 king salmon which was based on the average over the past fifteen years. He indicated that the number of king salmon allowed to be harvested is not calculated based on the strength of the run. He stated that there were maybe three weirs on the entire system. He stated that the numbers are based on estimates from the aerial surveys which are not nearly as accurate as the weir surveys. Number 4602 MR. BARKER stated that one of the main focuses of sport fish management is to provide access to the resource. He stated they are responsible for providing the launch ramps, access areas, campgrounds and trails. He suggested that each of those factors degrade habitat. He stated that habitats can exist without fish stocks, but fish stocks can not exist without habitats. TAPE 97-29, SIDE B Number 0007 MR. BARKER stated that as a chairman of a local advisory committee, he has some concerns as to what has been happening between advisory committees and the Board of Fisheries. He stated that the Board of Fisheries would rather not take the advisory committees' input. For example, last year the Board of Fisheries changed the agenda to reconsider Cook Inlet management and stated that they would not take oral testimony at the meeting. He stated that under a change of agenda the issue does not come to the advisory boards for discussion, therefore they were not able to comment or testify on the issue. He stated that there is a problem in communication between the state advisory committees and the Board of Fisheries. Number 0039 MR. BARKER stated that he has some budget concerns in regards to protection of the resource. He stated that the funding can not be cut back because then the resources are not able to be controlled or managed well and then the state will lose them. He stated that no one has a right to a resource, the only right is the resource which needs to be protected because if not all rights are lost. Number 0550 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that no one has a right to the resource; however, some people do have more rights than others and he referred to the Public Trust Doctrine. He stated that as legislators they have a duty to manage the resource for the good of the people. Number 0650 VIRGINIA ADAMS, Commercial Fisherman, stated that she has been commercial fishing for 23 years and is married to a 13th generation commercial fisherman. She stated that her nine-year-old son would like to be a commercial fisherman, but she stated that she does not feel that will be possible. Although, the reason is not because of lack of stocks. She stated that she is on the board of the Northwest Setnet Association, the United Fishermen's Association and the United Salmon Association. She indicated that she spends all her time, when she is not fishing, involved in allocation battles. She stated that if this dispute goes on long enough, over who will get that 5 percent, there will no longer be a percentage to be had. She stated that when the F.I.S.H Initiative was introduced the United Fishermen of Alaska and Salmon for Alaska's Future hired a professional company for $75,000 to conduct a poll of Alaskan residents regarding the fisheries. The resident anglers had the common complaint of overcrowding on areas that they had traditionally fished on by the growing commercial sport guide industry. The F.I.S.H Initiative was supposedly speaking for the resident sport fishermen. She suggested that the answer is to regulate this growing industry so that the opportunities that existed for the Alaskan angler are maintained. She stated that the resource should not be taken away from the commercial fishermen and given to the nonresident sport fishermen. She stated that the poll indicated that the F.I.S.H Initiative was a result of the very vocal minority commercial sport industry. She advised the legislature to look at the results of the poll. The F.I.S.H. Initiative was brought forth to the public in a very deceiving way. Number 1045 MS. ADAMS stated that the commercial fisheries are under assault and it needs the government to support this largest employer of the state, or the commercial fishing industry will no longer exist. She stated that she would rather not have these constant attempts to take away her right to fish. The commercial fishing industry is being politically crippled. Number 1211 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING asked Ms. Adams why the industry is crippled and if it is a function of the price of salmon rather than the volume of salmon that the industry is getting. Number 1233 MS. ADAMS replied that it is not just politics, but she addressed the political problem because the legislature deals with the political side. She stated that the marketing aspects of the salmon industry is really difficult to understand at this time, Alaska is losing market share to farmed fish. She stated that if the industry is not dealt with as a whole, nothing is going to be solved. The problems always seem to be segmented off. She stated that the commercial fishing industry is on the precipice of stopping and government action is needed. She stated that as long as there are people who pump up misconceptions and mistruths of the commercial fishing industry, further harm is being done to a fragile industry. She stated that many people are working very hard to go forward in the commercial fishing industry, but all the energy and resources are going towards constantly defending the industry instead of on solutions to its problems. She stated that the legislature should not be looking at this bill, but instead the bigger picture. She stated that the problems can be solved, there needs to be a handle on the commercial sport fishing industry in order to hold the resources in Alaska for the Alaskans. Number 1514 ANN BARKER, Commercial Fisherman and Business Owner, stated that she appreciated the addition of the wording of Cook Inlet to limit the area affected by the 5 percent. She stated that she felt the bill is an overreaction to the problem, the remedy in excess of what is needed to solve the problem. Number 1645 MS. BARKER addressed issue of the budget cuts to the Department of Fish and Game. She questioned why the funds to the permanent fund are being increased when money is not be reinvested in one of the greatest resources in the state. She stated that commercial fishermen help pay their own way by giving a percentage of their income to the state marketing institute, a severance tax to the borough and by paying for habitat monitoring and restocking of the fish through the aquaculture association. She stated that the commercial fishing industry needs support and money for resource development and research. She stated that the commercial sport fishery should not come at the cost of the Alaskan lifestyle, it needs to start to paying its own way. Number 1858 MS. BARKER stated that her health has not been good she has had a complete spinal fusion and then cancer in the last three years. Therefore, she has had to ask for a medical transfer of her permit. She received the medical transfers but received a letter from the state recommending that if she was not going to be able to fish, that she make arrangements to sell her permit well in advance of the next fishing season. She felt that there was a pressure on her to either get better or sell her permit. She also received a letter from a commercial fisherman, suggesting that there be the retirement option for fishermen to be able to lease their permit each year. This would enable her to retain her permit although she might not be able to fish it. Number 2203 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING commended the commercial industry for being self-sustaining, especially in the marketing area. The Alaska Institute for Salmon Marketing (ASMI) is paid for solely by commercial fishermen. He stated that he does advocate cutting the budget but he is willing to look at putting more money into the commercial fishing industry part of the budget . He stated that he is not saying that he will support putting more money in the budget but he is open to give it consideration. He stated that there are some unnecessary social programs that could be cut and the resources may be redirected. Number 2503 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that he would like to have copies of the letters that Ms. Barker referred to. He stated that he would like to look at retirement options for commercial fishermen. Number 2611 BRAD STEVENS, Federal Fisheries Biologist, National Marine Fisheries Service, stated that snow crab is the largest shellfish fishery in Alaska and at times it has been the largest fishery in the United States. He stated that next year's fishery, starting January 15, has the predicted quota of 234 million pounds and will be worth well in excess of $200 million. He stated that the state of Alaska does not have a single research biologist assigned to study snow crab. He questioned why the Department of Fish and Game has not allocated adequate funds to this and other crab fisheries. He asked if funds for fishery research were allocated according to the value of fisheries, what would the ratio be of crab biologists to salmon biologists. He stated that Kodiak was once the center of king crab fishing in Alaska. In 1980 statewide landings were over 130 million pounds of king crab. Since 1983 there has not been a king crab fishery in Kodiak. Since 1994 there has not been a tanner crab fishery Kodiak. He stated that the collapse of these fisheries have not resulted in any increase funding for research on these species. He asked what would be the results if this occurred in the salmon fishery. He stated that Bristol Bay was declared a disaster area because the sockeye salmon run contained only 15 million fish instead of a predicted 25 millon fish. He stated that last year the expected catch of tanner crabs in the Bering Sea was 7 millon pounds but less than 1 millon pounds were caught. He asked why this did not trigger concern in the Department of Fish and Game to allocate resources to study the tanner crab fishery. He stated that it is known that the crab fisheries are prone to boom and bust cycles, probably caused by episodic recruitment. He stated that king crab populations boom about every twenty years, snow and tanner crabs every ten years. He stated that the cycles can be predicted three to four years in advance. He questioned if this is why the sockeye fishery is considered an emergency because it was unexpected, whereas a complete closure of the tanner crab fishery was not because it was predicted in advance. He stated that he is not degrading the importance of salmon in Alaska, but there are other fisheries as or more valuable than the salmon fisheries. He stated that it is imperative that the state allocate its limited resources among the entire sweep of marine resources that it has to manage and not just focus on a single one. He stated that he has no vested interest or personal benefit to gain from these fisheries. He stated that he does not receive funds from the state, nor does he make any personal income from the fisheries. He stated he is concerned about the long term health of the resource and supporting sustainable fisheries on those stocks. Number 3055 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that the legislature will allocate money to a department and that department, sometimes against the legislature's wishes, reallocates the money. He asked Mr. Stevens what his feelings were. Number 3157 MR. STEVENS replied that the shellfish biologists in the state established a list of important issues and very few have been addressed. He stated that he did not know why funding has not been made available. Number 3222 REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS stated that crab are extremely sensitive to the temperature of the water. He asked if there were any studies relating to the crab and the rising water temperatures that are occurring now. Number 3253 MR. STEVENS replied that he would not say temperature is the culprit, although changes in crab population are environmentally related. He stated that there is no funding to look at the effects of the environment on crab stocks. Number 3343 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if there was any logic to what areas the state and federal biologists take on or if there was duplication. Number 3354 MR. STEVENS replied that there is no duplication, and that there is good coordination with the state shellfish research biologists. He stated that they often work together. Number 3415 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if he has given any thought to what the research programs would cost. Number 3435 MR. STEVENS referred to the Alaska Fishery Research Bulletin, Issue 1, Volume 1, "Results of a Questionnaire on Research and Management Priorities for Commercial Crab Species in Alaska." He stated that the priorities are laid out explicitly in the article. He stated that research on red king crab is the highest priority, followed by tanner and snow crab. Stock assessment is the highest area issue. He stated that this is the plan in place, but the funds to implement it are lacking. Number 3625 CHRIS BLACKBURN, Representative, Alaska Groundfish Data Bank, stated that Kodiak is a year round fishing and processing port. She stated that Kodiak is the only port that runs its processing plants with local residents. She stated that the trawlers that she represents, who fish mostly in the winter months, are salmon tenders in the summer months. She stated that the salmon seiners are also long liners for cod and various other fisheries. She stated that the community has spent their money on the community. For example, the new dock was built with revenue bonds, paid off by the users of that dock. She stated that they are also building a new building for the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) paid for with revenue bonds and government grants. She stated that it is a fishing community. Her job is to look for opportunities and money for research because the unknown, could kill the industry and community. Habitat loss and overfishing can kill a stock silently if the research is not done to monitor the resource. She stated that the federal government has a lot of money for NMFS but congress does not want there to be any more employees. She stated that this is an opportunity for the state of Alaska because NMFS is contracting out a lot of their work to state agencies and private contractors. She stated that if the Department of Fish and Game is cut back to the point that they no longer have the people available to do the work then the research is lost. She stated that the University of Alaska, College of Fisheries and Ocean Sciences has been returning $7 in research grants for every $1 of general fund money that was spent on it, and yet it was the most drastically cut unit in the university system. She stated that it does not make much fiscal sense to cut the most profitable operation. Number 4022 MS. BLACKBURN stated she also coordinates agencies to get together and talk to each other about what they know about a resource. She put together the Prince William Sound Pollock Summit that put out a strategic plan for research funding money. They are also working with various agencies to do surveys on the cod and groundfish fishery. She stated that she has concern over how the University does not coordinate with the Department of Fish and Game or with NMFS. She stated that the biggest obstacle to ecosystem management is that there is no long term data. She stated that this should be considered by the legislature when allocating money to the appropriate agencies. She stated that there is an ad hoc research group in Kodiak that meets to exchange information and discuss issues. Number 4727 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he is the chairman of the House Standing Resources Committee and he liked the idea of doing an assessment of all the resources available. TAPE 97-30, SIDE A Number 0005 JOE MACINKO, Commercial Fisherman, asked Representative Kohring if he is doing anything to help the habitat accommodate to the growing number of anglers fishing in his area. He stated that Representative Kohring's inflammatory remarks about Kodiak fishermen may get a lot of votes, but asked whether it would solve the problem. He stated that improving the habitat along the river might help solve the problem but that would mean telling Representative's Kohring's constituents that they can not do what they want to do. He stated that salmon are not general fund dollars that can be allocated. He stated that 5 percent of the run can not be taken out of the Bristol Bay run and reallocated to Cook Inlet. He stated that the most that can be done is to take the best possible care of the stocks, which is not being done. He referred to a letter that was published in the Daily News from a resident in Representative Kohring's area. The resident stated that he had been trying for a day and a half to report some people on three-wheelers, driving through spawning beds, snagging fish illegally but could not get troopers to respond to him. He asked Representative Kohring if it really is the Kodiak fishermen that are killing the king salmon or if it is his own constituents. Number 0440 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he wanted to explain that it is the responsibility of the legislature to delegate any authority to the Department of Fish and Game and the Board of Fisheries. He stated that he resents the statement that the only reason for HB 149 is to get votes. He stated that the legislature has a public obligation to manage the resource for the good of people. He stated that Mr. Macinko is right that part of it is a habitat problem and there needs to work done. He stated that he is concerned about the resource and is not trying to just get votes. Number 0702 MR. MACINKO replied he feels getting votes is the motivation for HB 149. He stated that in regards to allocation, it is impossible for the legislature to be able to reallocate the physical location of salmon. It is not possible to make fish that are not going to automatically go to Cook Inlet, to do so. He stated that it is possible to say that 90 percent of the Cook Inlet run will go to sport fishermen, but HB 149 does not state that. HB 149 states that 5 percent of the statewide run be allocated to sport fishermen. Number 0745 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that as a legislator, he has always operated from the heart to always do what he thinks is best, which is the case with this bill. He stated that he was thankful to everybody for coming and being so polite and professional. Number 0934 MARK BUCKLEY, Bristol Bay Commercial Fisherman and Journalist stated that unless the impending federal government's takeover of the subsistence fisheries is dealt with, there will no longer be a problem because it will be in federal government's hands. He stated that the federal government's take over will have an impact on the sport fisheries in Alaska. He stated that he was at a meeting in Naknek regarding the Bristol Bay Salmon situation. He stated that a local Naknek resident, who is Native and on the Federal Subsistence Advisory Counsel, made the statement that all the sport fishing lodges on Lake Clark and Lake Iliamna were catching fish while they were shut down from fishing. The Native Naknek resident stated that when the federal government takes over, the sport lodges will be the first to be shut down. Mr. Buckley stated that the subsistence boards will have that extra-territorial authority. He stated that the Federal Subsistence Board has the power to allow the sale of subsistence caught resources. He stated that a federal judge has determined that the residents of Southeast Alaska can sell "subsistence caught herring" for up to $20,000 or $30,000. He stated that it could quite possibly be allowed for subsistence users to put a fish trap at the mouth of the Kenai River. He stated that the council is working on allowing the sale of subsistence caught halibut under the definition of trading it for money. He stated that this will evolve into another commercial industry that will not be able to be regulated. He stated that if every rural resident is defined as a subsistence user it will greatly affect the sport fishery. He stated that he would like to have the opportunity to vote on the government's subsistence plan. He urged that the legislators put the issue before the public on the ballot. Number 1415 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he is aware of these issues with the commercial sale of subsistence fish. He stated that he would not sign off on the government plan because he does not believe the problem will go away with a rural priority, instead it will probably get worse. He stated that there can be a solution without creating the apartheid system of management under the Department of Fish and Game. He stated that the rural priority is a political fix, it will help the Governor get re-elected. He said, I don't think Tony Knowles, personally, is that interested in solving it other than for a political fix." He stated the problem can be solved by putting Alaskans first. He stated that the problem is in Washington D.C. and not in Juneau. Number 1854 MR. BUCKLEY replied that the problem is in both Juneau and Washington D.C. He stated that he is asking that the residents of Alaska be able to vote on it. Number 1940 DIANA BUFFINGTON, Bank Teller; Kodiak District Chairman, Republican Party, would like the committee take a look at the Republican Party's resolutions and platforms. She stated that there needs to be a resolution in the legislature to support the Republicans' platform on the subsistence issue because the party supported the legislature's stand to not amend the state constitution. If it does go to a public vote, she stated that the question should be "Do we amend the constitution of Alaska to change the quality of the people by rural subsistence or rural preference." MS. BUFFINGTON stated that Kodiak passed a 37 percent property tax increase, during the time when the commercial fishermen were on strike. She stated that in addition to a bad fishing season, the fishermen had their taxes go up, retroactive for the year. She stated that there is an initiative on the ballot to cap the taxes. She indicated that she would like to be able to vote on a property tax, currently state law prohibits that. MS. BUFFINGTON stated that everything needs to be done to protect the fishing industry and its habitat. She stated that cutting programs that help the resource is not effective. She stated that it is important to protect the markets and the allocation in HB 149 is not the way to do it. She stated that any effect on the fishing industry will affect the entire Kodiak community. Number 3027 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that it was his understanding that when municipalities are formed, there are tax limits induced, therefore there was a vote on the tax, trusting that the people who form the municipality will spend it wisely. Number 3051 MS. BUFFINGTON stated that she agreed, but not being able to vote on a 37 percent property tax increase was not fair. She stated that the fishermen during the strike had very little input during the fishing season. She felt that having it on the ballot in October would enable the fishermen who make up most of the community in Kodiak have a vote. Number 3254 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that the next meeting will be in Kenai on November 5.
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